Addressing the "D1 Prince" meta

Recently, it has become a lot more common for the Prince to claim d1 in ToL. This is unfair for evils/NK, as there is not enough counterplay to this, since Prince claiming on d1 means that there is next to no chance of him dying early. It doesn’t really matter if the Prince claim is fake, since healers can be confirmed on them by gossip or soft-confirmed through brilder count.

Ways to punish princes who out d1:

  • Convert a Sage/Enforcer to kill him later (rare this will actually happen unless you hit a convert immune n1), the former of which can be denied with GK guard
  • Reaper circle to kill the healers/nobles/knights/observers, but this actually hurts Reaper because of the -2 souls (opportunity cost), and there could also be a Mercenary/SS blocking your kills
  • Reap them immediately (could be a Knight/Observer/Mercenary on them, too much risk)
  • Bomb them as Sorcerer if there is a d1 Mercenary claim - this is very risky since the Mercenary might shield them or just not be on them at all, also means sacrificing a bomb
    The only reliable way to get rid of the Prince early on, is to get a Ritualist.

I’m not saying that having to work around the Prince in the midgame, such as pushing for him to jail certain targets is a bad thing, I’m saying that d1 Prince meta is too strong, since he can be babysat with little consequence coming from his d1 claim.

what do you suggest

or is that what this thread for

or is that what this thread for


1 Like

just give MM oneshot strongman 4head

thats probably really unbalanced tho lol

it’s not actually that unbalanced if it applies to the assassin’s kill

i wrote alot of dumb things then forgot about it but one idea that crossed my mind was 2f1 selecting the same target twice being a strongman

i havent minded this too much in my really recent games but i also havent played alot


hey hey

what if we gave MM the ability to turn 4Sight into a convert ability but slightly nerfed by a few uses


what if targeting the same target in both slots for 2for1 or Eradicate made your kill strongman? so you’d be giving up a kill, but in exchange boom bye Prince



1 Like

great minds think alike

Add duke

1 Like

duke my baby :revolving_hearts:

1 Like

duke :heart::heart::heart::heart::heart:

1 Like

Smh Duke fans.
We clearly need a 0.1% chance for Neutral Killer Prince


my only problem with this suggestion is that it generally favors cult more as unseen only gets 1 (maybe 2 if timesnatcher, very very rarely more) 2f1 where cult gets more

and with ritualist existing i don’t really know how much cult needs multiple strongmans

I’m pretty sure that Arete/Elixir just mean that assassin gets strongman 2f1, not cult
Cult doesn’t need it because of ritualist, invoker can be used to help kill Prince too

I don’t think that it should bypass innate DI, and should instead bypass forms of protection (king SG/heal or tw/icy veins), so that you can’t strongman kill NK

i was specifically replying to arete who mentioned eradicate by name :stuck_out_tongue:

but yeah, letting cultseen easily strongman NK is probably a big nono

my bad, didn’t see Arete say Eradicate