Opinion Thread: The Fool (ToL)

I’ve heard many things about the Fool, but I told myself I wouldn’t influence the thread so yeah.

What is your Opinion on the Fool in Throne of Lies? Why is it that way?

Please don’t go off on tangents that have nothing to do with the thread.

Please spread this thread around like butter on bread (or toast) so we can get a wide variety of opinions on this topic.

It’s pretty easy.
Forum people: Fool is really really bad
ToL people: There’s no problem with fool

You’re forgetting a critical piece

A logical argument to support those statements

Which really only exists on one side unless you consider “well we should let bad evils hide because it’s turbo lol” as a logical argument

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https://forum.imperium42.com/t/why-fool-is-a-mistake/37212

And even Noz knows enough to put forth a decent page on this

https://forum.imperium42.com/t/why-fool-is-a-bad-class/62214?u=orangeandblack5

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Like

Any role that brings down the overall skill level of the game is just fundamentally ew

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Any argument orange says is objectively ew

Aka
people who don’t like tol often also don’t like

  • Fool

Fool winrate in tol is like under 50% last time I checked

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  • Fool is insanely easy (Not true, in ToL you often get deduced as Fool and get simply Hunter bled or executed by the Prince … or ignored. In real the winrate isn’t higher than the BD winrate)
  • Fool stops you from trying to properly gamesolve/Fool penalizes you for right deduction (Obvious false - in tol there are a lot of ways to get rid of evils without executing them on daytime. Why should it be right deduction to execute a neutral??? On the other hand - if you deduce a Fool as Fool, that is good deduction)

On the other hand:
Fool stops you from mislynching people randomly, especially newbies
Fool makes you having to think about which non-BD class you want to execute

As a player with more than 3000 matches, I actively enjoy playing Fool and I actively enjoy finding Fools or getting the punishment for not finding them. My own Fool winrate is 21 of 47 = 44%.
(my overall winrate is 1565 of 3185 = 49%)
(As comparison, my Alch win rate is 67 of 121 = 55% … so let’s remove Alch because it’s too easy? Strange argument)

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Funny you should ask

https://forum.imperium42.com/t/i-blame-alchemist/71649?u=orangeandblack5

So you want to nerf fools abilties not remove it right

Yeah, let’s remove 2 of the most beloved classes in ToL without reason :wink:
(and holy shit that thread is outdated, the classes are working completely different now)

Yeah it was just funny to bring up

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Nah

Rework it to achieve its goal in a better way

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It’s not unsalvageable, given its context

Just needs some tweaks to not be a skill-reducing factor

What kinds of abilities would you like to give fool?
I mean, the wincon definitely stays like it is
He has Infinite Trollbox, 2x Deathimmunity, 2x Frame

Yeah definitely not

Unless you have a good argument for how that’s somehow so good that changing it is out of the question

So what abilities you want to add/remove