Patch v3.0.0: Major Balance / 中文 Chinese Localization


That’s what he meant


Oh man, this came out of left field. I’m gonna run down the list and say my personal opinions on all the changes.

I support the new Intensify power, but Icy Veins/Clear Mind being bundled in as well will make the target too strong and hard to dispose of as an evil. Perhaps make these abilities switch between death immunity/convert immunity or occ immunity? Having both just flat out stops evils from preventing a knight or similar killing them.

I’m a bit iffy that this will benefit the game. It’s true, the ability was placed in the MM’s hands to prevent whispers, which stopped the “whisper important guy” meta. Adding it back may reintroduce that meta again, to a smaller extent (Prince won’t out d1 in fear of reaper circle, but on D2 instead and collect claims.)
Also, maybe go and add it to Nightwatch? It’s still a great ability if people do end up whispering.

This I am against. I remember that old mercenary force pardon fondly. Considering it’s the Neutral Killer we’re dealing with, BD will simply dispose of the sorcerer at night via Prince, and since bombs can only be detonated at night, this unintentionally hinders the sorcerer’s killing power.

Good one, now people will actually be worried about a reaper circle. EDIT: I’m still a bit iffy that this will actually do something about D1 claims. Even as of now, a prince outing D1 isn’t even gonna get much attention from protectors, and this will just discourage being on important BD in general. Maybe that’s a good thing.

Interesting change. I have a prediction of what this change will do: Drunks will be executed more than Butlers and Butlers will survive much longer on average. We will have to wait and see.

…Is it over? Has the BD inquisitor finally died yet? Thank god.

Interesting tradeoff. Overall, a lot less occupations in the court will both benefit the mercenary but also hinder the evils a bit, since BD will be more likely to use their abilities successfully to stop cultseen.


Big fan i hope the whisper the king meta doesnt resurface we dont need that meta

I personally like all the changes here. Sorc finally has a way to escape late king games since they cant bomb king and are forced to rely on neuts to help. Fool is interesting but cool.

  1. The Cw will become a bit more monotone in a playstyle though but I am not completely against that
  2. Finally Ive wanted Obs to be more common for forever now.
  3. I always thought the chrono targeting king was a bug…
  4. “little birds gets removed” Ah yes and with Cw Wisper meta is back in full force
  5. Sorc can force pardon themesles which is great later game Completely useless any other time
  6. Reaper circle is on soul now that should be fun and he can target himself very nice
  7. SS now just claims drunk? And Butler is now almost auto confirmed?
  8. Again I thought inq bug could target king and only Bd faction members just makes him a tiny Nk
  9. Merc is Unigue I have always hated the which ever number is higher wins for merc
  10. Fool huh
  11. YAy actually helping newbies by putting the results in

[I dont know how to quote properly but this is my opinion]

my comments.

1 cw ; changes will make the cw are simplier class, and it will no allow experience user to use (empower) to prove themselves easily. still, its good new ot make the game simplier to understand.

  1. observer can be extremely hard to prove and work as an usefull protective when acting as a lookout, with only a possessor being to trick him.

3 chrono changes are a good idea. the starting king need to be more important in the game.

4 mm ; whisper meta will come back. for sure. prince will be able to out themselves to a good king, and the bd will use whisper to planify their own actions. that everyone target the king is not an important aspect of whisper meta. its that everyone whisper with each others, coordinate their actions. way reaper will not be able to circle of death prince, who will have the knight on him, and the knight will mostly have an chrono, a phys or the king. depending on how the chain is organised. and of course, the reaper does not know about any of this.
also a problem of a good circle of death, is that you kill mostly reaper suspects, yeah you remove bd protective and fasten the game. but it cost 2 souls (not 3) and it make it easier for those remind alive to find you.

5 the sorceror. i,m not certain i support this change. multiple neutrals might have even reason to stand against the sorc, especially if they believe they are marked by a bomb. i can be neut in all i want, but if i,m an alch, i really don,t want to die to a bomb.
the ability for force a pardon is a nice addition, but will it compensate for losing potential allies.

6 reaper think i like those changes, but Merc and Butler can still ruin that day

7 sellsword. ; good idea, make the butler more confirmable and more important to the bd… and it also the sellsword to claim drunk now, more confirmable and to step for king, but i think it will be that way for a moment. since players will know sellsword claims drunk

8 Inq, now, he became an evil neutral, that should be killed if ever found, its mean, its an old scorned, that can directly kill its target, and will give nothing to the bd. so more ever, if we find an inq, we kill it.

9 merc unique : i am very uncertain about that, the change in brilders too.

Uh we dont want the whisper meta back dylan is hoping the meta doesnt return with birds removed

which is generally not a good game design strategy


i mean
wkm is a consequence of having a strong publicly likely town role revealed day 1

since you cannot remove said role

your best next counter is to have a 100% guaranteed groupscum role have some form to deal with whispers

though what that looks like is beyond me

Wait your agreeing with me right? Since the meta is bad

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Btw i agree we do need a way to counter the meta if it resurfaces maybe a netrual killing that revolves around whispers where they can permanently silence a player that whispered someone for the next day

I know reaper can but maybe a different type of reapers chill

I think we should wait and see how the meta evolves after the balance change

For all we know, whisper metas won’t come back at all. Frankly, I joined ToL after WKM died (WMM was still around), and given that the King was the single member of the court most likely on D2 to be evil, WKM has always seemed like kind of a strange idea to me…

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Arete i hope it evolves and doesnt desolve back i was just saying if people for some reason return to it

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I give it, like, two months at most before whisper games are a problem again

Probably less but I do gotta cover my own butt sometimes :stuck_out_tongue:

EKs can’t even kill or convert, so even if they’re evil they can’t do much with your info.

They can avoid upping scummy people/coordinate BD to use their actions in a mechanically harmful way/whisper the claimlist to an ally if they find one with Allies/etc.

and honestly the first one is probably enough with how most games of ToL play out, if people are WKMing and just leaving the game to the King

Leaving all decision making up to one player is invariably a bad move

Yet that seems to happen in social deduction

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Implying ToL players use social deduction

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fair point

but I’m not going to say that it doesn’t exist because there is a minute chance it does